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Post by Solana on Apr 22, 2020 7:42:23 GMT -5
A question that came to mind when watching a Let's Play of 'Shadow Hearts: Covenant'. Beyond the usual weaponry, we've seen quite a variety in games. What are your favorites, and what hasn't worked?
Favorite wacky weapon- Frozen Tuna, Joachim, Shadow Hearts: Covenant.
I love how Joachim just randomly finds (or honestly, steals in some cases) things to use as a bludgeon in battle. Mailboxes, pillars, and tables are all, well, on the table for him, but the most random is a frozen tuna he finds in the wintry Russian city of Petrograd. (While it's possible to purchase his weapons, you can save money and get some hilarity by stumbling on them.) The writer in me also loves the little stories he invents for the items praising their strength, while getting a "What the hell are you talking about?" reaction from the others.
(Anastasia's Faberge eggs are an honorable mention.)
Least favorite wacky weapon- Umbrellas ("Lunar" Dragon Song, Wild Arms 2, etc.)
I'm not sure why this is such a popular thing, but I've never seen it done well in a videogame yet. Lilka in Wild Arms 2 doesn't even whack an enemy with it- the attack is opening it up on enemies.
The only place I've seen it work really well is Neo's parasol in the anime 'RWBY'. She'll open it to block attacks and is brilliant at counters, and even has a sword hidden in the handle. Wielders of umbrellas, do yourselves a favor and watch some of Neo's battles. Take notes.
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Post by Rune Lai on Apr 22, 2020 15:33:28 GMT -5
Joachim was great.  (Man, I miss Shadow Hearts.) Kanji from Persona 4 is also like that, in a lot of his weapons are random crap that he bludgeons people with (though he doesn't get funny cut scenes like Joachim). If you play Persona Q2, going in the shop makes you realize just how varied the casts of Personas 3-5's weapons are. Like Yukiko has a fan and Chie uses her shoes (since she kicks people). Even though a number of characters use swords, they'll often use distinctly different types of swords like Junpei uses large two-handeds and Mitsuru a fencing blade. As far as favorite unusual weapon... that's really hard since I tend to remember characters more than their weapons and there's nothing that really sticks with me. Off the top of my head I liked the acid shot from Phantasy Star II since it was narrative a horrible weapon (you're shooting people with acid!) that could only be used by the more scientifically inclined party members (like Amy and Hugh) who also tended to be your healers. Also shooting acid is just different from shooting bullets. I used to really gravitate to anyone with a claw weapon, back when it was more rare, but claw-wielders aren't as unusual anymore and even appear regularly in western games (my current Path of Exile league character is dual-wielding claws). Oh! I did like the Silver Fang that Myau used in the first Phantasy Star, because it turned the talking kitty into an engine of death. From the illustration it's a multi-pronged blade he grips in his mouth. For least favorite, probably fans. While I vaguely remember reading that there are fans that can be used to block in combat, but they were intended to be one-item use items since the structural integrity would be ruined afterwards. I'm pretty sure Yukiko would be easily able to buy combat fans in the rural town of Inaba.  Jean in Lunar maybe has the resources to do so, but that wouldn't change them being of limited use for defensive purposes. (A giant frozen tuna is silly, but I'm sure you could still hurt someone with one!) |
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Post by Ambrienne on Apr 22, 2020 17:42:45 GMT -5
Given that even a 1 lb, frozen solid roll of turkey sausage can hurt if it falls out of a freezer onto your toes (yes, this did happen to me once as I wear sandals around the house at least as often as real shoes), I think I'll agree with you on the tuna. I do wonder, though... how do you keep your grip on it?  I always liked Klarth's (from Tales of Phantasia) weapons, which were books that were used to smack people around. Got to say that I don't agree with the damage ratings for his top weapon, though, which was a strategy guide (an example of early Tales cheesiness). At least in the Get Smart series (or was it the second Don Adams movie?), Max used War and Peace to block a KAOS agent in a fight. I remember a fighting game I played/rented (yeah, oddity for me since I don't like that genre) where one of the characters used hula hoops. Now THAT was stupid. Any hula hoop I ever encountered would bend if you looked at it funny. Hey, Solana, I think Okuni in the Samurai Warriors series (at least the first one that I played) used an umbrella/parasol properly if I remember. It was still ridiculous, of course, but jumping up high in the air and using it to float around/over opponents was still kind of fun anyway. |
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Post by Solana on Apr 23, 2020 9:43:57 GMT -5
Joachim was great. Yeah, he's one of my favorites. I also love how cute he and Anastasia are together, between her sleeping on him if you stay at Edgar's for supper or the way she supports him during the Man Festival and even hides behind him in Japan. For least favorite, probably fans. While I vaguely remember reading that there are fans that can be used to block in combat, but they were intended to be one-item use items since the structural integrity would be ruined afterwards. I'm pretty sure Yukiko would be easily able to buy combat fans in the rural town of Inaba. Jean in Lunar maybe has the resources to do so, but that wouldn't change them being of limited use for defensive purposes. (A giant frozen tuna is silly, but I'm sure you could still hurt someone with one!) Really? Ooh, I'd better do some more research. The first story that I want to get published, (and the one I'll ask for your expertise in) has a protagonist who uses them for her primary weapons. There are always the cast iron fire fans, and I could talk to my blackbelt niece. Then there was the note about them being used in Indonesian martial arts... (Personally, I adore fans. I have a pair of fanveils for dancing with, a lovely regal feather one from the RenFaire, a straw one from Jamaica, several Asian embroidered ones, and a really nice thick cloth one I bought in Bali. Next I want a weapon-style one for my collection.) And Ambrienne, remember the episode of 'Burn Notice' where they bulletproofed a car with phone books? I wonder if Myth Busters ever looked into that? |
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Post by Ambrienne on Apr 23, 2020 10:14:19 GMT -5
It would probably depend on the phone book... and the gun type. A phone book in my area probably wouldn't stop a knife let alone a gun. Ah, the advantages (and disadvantages) of small towns.
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Post by Rune Lai on Apr 24, 2020 1:18:14 GMT -5
What I read was years ago, so I could be misremembering, but I remember it was specifically about gunsen, a Japanese war fan. Feudal Japan had a lot of interesting weapons beyond the popular katana (my sentimental favorite is the kusarigama), but generally speaking, there's a reason most of the fighting was done with swords. They're just so darn effective if you want to kill someone. If you weren't using a sword it was probably because you needed to disguise your weapon (because you couldn't carry one openly or you're hiding that you have one). The gunsen was your last resort weapon because it's still functionally a fan. It just uses metal instead of wood to hold the paper together. It might be enough to keep somebody from sticking a knife in your guts, but all else being equal the advantage would be to the knife-wielder.
(Now, hijacking the topic a bit...)
Since you brought up using this in your novel I'm gonna add a couple more paragraphs on this. Feel free to ignore if you're not in the right space for commentary!
I don't know much about Indonesian martial arts, but if your protagonist is going use a fan as a primary weapon (not a backup), I'd research how and why it was used in that country. For instance, in Japan peasants weren't allowed to carry swords, so weapons like the kusarigama were invented because you could make it from a sickle and a length of chain, both of which were available to non-samurai. If your protagonist lives in a restricted society, it's possible she uses fans because that's literally the only thing she can get away with. In which case her using such an unusual weapon makes sense.
The second thing is, as a reader, I'd really want to know how fan fighting works. You'd have to sell me on how this is possible. In games, Jean and Yukiko both throw their fans (which is unrealistic outside of games if you plan on attacking more than a couple times), whereas gunsen usage was in melee range. Also, you'd want to consider the weapons your protagonist is fighting against. A straight up fan vs. sword battle is probably not going to work in your protagonist's favor due to the sword's reach (and a fan wielder would probably straight up avoid someone using a spear), unless you're really anime-ing it up, which is fine with some readers, but not with others. I can go either way, but as a reader I need to know ahead of time whether the book is going to play realistic or not, and without appropriate cues, my default is realistic.
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Post by northlander on Apr 24, 2020 3:15:25 GMT -5
I do remember using a frozen fish (amongst other things) in that PS1 Jackie Chan game that I bought and played a couple of times back when it was relatively new. Other than that, the only thing I can think of for weaponry on the somewhat odd side is Rygar's diskarmor -- that yo-yo sawblade thing he swung around. It was fairly straightforward in the arcade and NES originals, but took on a life on its own in the PS2 remake, the game that was kind of God of War's precursor as far as playstyle goes.
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Post by Solana on Apr 24, 2020 7:36:22 GMT -5
Thanks, Rune. You've given me some really good food for thought, and I'm very grateful for it.
This is going to be the first novel in the universe that DarkKnight and I have been working on together for years. (Though you guys will get a taste and get to meet some of the characters in the one I'm working on for here.)
I don't want to give too much away here, but my protagonist's fighting style is based on capoeira, and for similar reasons- her home country had been overtaken and kept as part of an empire for a long, long time, and it was a fighting style developed from dance. Hence, the fans, as props used in so many styles.
I'll think on it some more, but it would probably be a good idea to at least give her a secondary weapon. Especially considering what will happen in the sequel...
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Post by Rune Lai on Apr 24, 2020 16:26:45 GMT -5
I can see thematically why you'd want her to have fans when she's using a dance-derived martial art. Especially if she's an actual performer it could be a good way to bring a weapon into a place where she's not allowed to. "This is part of my routine!"
Anyway, I don't want to run roughshod over your worldbuilding, especially since I don't know what you have and haven't planned out. If you've got a good explanation, I'll probably buy it. It's just the fan wielders in games haven't given me that so I haven't.
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Post by Solana on Apr 24, 2020 18:10:58 GMT -5
No, no, you're not running roughshod! And actually, you just did me a HUGE favor, because I'm going to need to have her pack something other than a performer's weapons in the sequel. (She'll be somewhere where artists are... not wanted.) Combat writing is still something I'm working on, so I truly am grateful for your insight because it will help me make sure I've done my homework properly.
As for the part about bringing weapons into places, well, EVERYONE knows how to use and packs a weapon in this world. But I'll be going into that in a very special chapter of the story coming up. It's going to be awesome.
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Post by Solana on May 1, 2020 15:48:00 GMT -5
(Laughs) Can't believe I forgot this one-
Hair- Shantae series, Kabuki Quantum Fighter. I make jokes about being careful to whip my head around too fast and my hair taking someone's eye out- it's down to my hips- but this takes that literally. There aren't even any clips or spiked straps or anything- just a ponytail in Shantae's case, and just long hair in KQF. There are other weapons and skills available, but in both cases, this is the primary method of inflicting damage.
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Post by northlander on May 23, 2020 8:59:55 GMT -5
You and me both on Shantae. I didn't exactly remember it either, so.... ^^;;
You can even upgrade her hair with various haircare products.
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(Man, I miss Shadow Hearts.) Kanji from Persona 4 is also like that, in a lot of his weapons are random crap that he bludgeons people with (though he doesn't get funny cut scenes like Joachim).
Jean in Lunar maybe has the resources to do so, but that wouldn't change them being of limited use for defensive purposes. (A giant frozen tuna is silly, but I'm sure you could still hurt someone with one!)
