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Post by Rune Lai on Mar 7, 2017 14:06:13 GMT -5
I am on such an Attack on Titan binge right now... Anyone else looking forward to the next season?
In addition to playing the PS4 game, which I'm stilling playing almost every night (need to unlock those epilogue chapters), my special edition manga volumes 16-20 arrived in the mail and I've reread those chapters and watched the bonus anime episodes packaged along with them. Then I started rewatching the original 25 episodes. T_T
I'm not a huge fan of Hajime Isayama's artwork (I sometimes can't tell characters apart), but he's an amazingly good plotter. Most manga-ka are better artists than they are writers, but I think Isayama is the other way around.
While rereading/rewatching things (I've read up to the latest manga chapter on Crunchyroll) I've noticed just how much stuff he's set up ahead of time that looks completely inconsequential (or even a bit of dramatic exaggeration) at earlier points in the story.
Vol 22 reveals the real reason behind an event in Vol 12, after reading Vol 16 (17?) I don't look at a particular scene in Vol 2 the same anymore. Even little things like "Holy crap, Erwin Smith and Hange Zoe are actually in the first episode and I never noticed!"
As a writer I've started dissecting why this series is working so well for me and I think it's because the audience is told very little at the outset. We're told the way the world is as the protagonists understand it, but there are secrets everywhere, and Isayama is really good about dropping plot bombs right at the end of the chapter and saving the implications of that new knowledge for the next chapter. He's been teasing out the true state of the AoT world for volumes and volumes. The revelations keep coming and they make sense. (Season 1 of the anime barely scratches the surface.)
He's yet to put out a single revelation that feels like an asspull. Sometimes I might not agree with what he does with his characters (by Vol 22 it's pretty damn clear who has a ridiculous amount of plot armor), but for the main plot, for worldbuilding, this guy has all his ducks in a row. I suppose he could still flub it at the end, but when he said he had the whole story laid out from the beginning he's not kidding. It really shows.
There were things that I thought didn't quite make sense earlier in the story, only to find out the reason why those things don't make sense is actually woven into the story!
Makes me feel writer envy.
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Post by Roas on Mar 7, 2017 16:55:34 GMT -5
If I go back to the anime, it'll be after the manga is finished. I reached a point with long running manga .vs. anime reproductions where I can't watch something I know is going to be incomplete. That's why I don't watch One Piece anime anymore until arcs are completed.
Titan is so depressing and information heavy, it's bad enough waiting a month at a time for a chapter...hoping I don't forget things from the previous ones. Considering each chapter is usually 45 pages long, sometimes I feel like not enough happened or too much happened in that space. I know that's a weird thing to say, but the revelations that have now come to pass as of Chapter 90, imo, took a little too long to get to. I dunno. I think it could have been done in a less meandering way, but that's just me.
Once thing I will say, is that the anime as far as artwork goes looks so much better than the manga. I've never liked the actual manga artwork.
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Post by Rune Lai on Mar 8, 2017 15:01:09 GMT -5
Yeah, Isayama takes forever to get anywhere. I've heard it called pacing issues, but when I read the collected volumes I don't think it's really a pacing problem. I think it's that he's juggling so much that 45 pages isn't enough to get a good idea of what's going on. (Though to be fair, I remember reading the manga while my anime-only friend kept asking me "Have they gotten to the basement yet? Have they gotten to the basement yet?" and that asking went on for a pretty long time.)
Also, Isayama really likes doing flashbacks in the middle of the action to give context to what's currently happening, and as a result, we have situations where very little of what is presently happening actually happens, because we spend so much time in the backstory.
Sometimes it works. I don't think we needed to see Eren bonding with Levi Squad pre-expedition in the Female Titan arc, and it was okay to add the flashback after the expedition was under way. Other times there's so much backstory that I kind of lose track of what's happening in the present if I'm not reading enough of it in a single sitting.
The most recently completed story arc lasts about 5 volumes' worth of manga which is a perfectly reasonable amount of time in which to do a story arc. And tons of stuff happens, lots is revealed! But if you're only reading it one chapter at a time you feel like you barely get anything in any given installment.
I'm still reading the new chapters every month or two on Crunchyroll, but I buy the collected volumes later because the smaller chunks aren't as satisfying and I miss a lot.
I watched the first season in binges roughly every four weeks because I found out that one episode at a time was annoying. I'm probably going to do the same thing for Season 2.
Generally I don't like getting into a long-running anime when the manga's not done either, and I actually wasn't going to watch Attack on Titan when it first came out, but it's one of those things where somehow or other I got sucked in because I kept hearing how good it was so eventually I checked it out about a third of the way through the original broadcast.
I'm glad I have the manga though, because if I was an anime-only person the waiting would be infuriating.
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Alis
The Casual Gamer
Posts: 106
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Post by Alis on Mar 23, 2017 12:29:05 GMT -5
I'm also on an attack on Titan Binge!! Its my first time watching AOT though, and I'm glad the new season is coming up real soon because Im almost done.
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Post by Rune Lai on Mar 24, 2017 13:22:44 GMT -5
You have good timing! It was agony waiting for each episode to come out during the original run.
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Alis
The Casual Gamer
Posts: 106
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Post by Alis on Mar 25, 2017 16:47:11 GMT -5
You have good timing! It was agony waiting for each episode to come out during the original run. That's one of the advantages of being always late to the party.
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Post by Rune Lai on Apr 9, 2017 18:11:14 GMT -5
So I watched Episode 26 and 27 together since I was off traveling during the launch period. Individually they were good, griping... What happened to Mike/Miche (depending on translation) was OMG a hundred times worse in color, animated, and with voice acting. I don't know what they're going to do further down the line with some of the later stuff. I don't think I've felt so squeamish since the first episode when I didn't want to watch Eren's mom die.
But pacing... yeah, we're not going to see much this season. Stuff is definitely happening, but it's not going to be a plot reveal a minute sort of show. It's not going to convert anyone who didn't already like the original.
I have mixed feelings about this season being 12 episodes, but the animation is gorgeous and definitely as good as Season 1 at its best. I know they shoved a filler episode into Season 1 and did extensive fixes to the home video release to add shading and animation where they fell short on time due to the crazy production schedule, so maybe it's best they take a smaller chunk of episodes at a time and then not wait four years between S2 and S3.
Attack on Titan being the money-making juggernaut that it is, I can't imagine they aren't already planning the next batch of episodes. Even if the anime is expensive to produce, there's so much ancillary merchandise and spin-offs they're likely pulling a profit in the end (it's just a question of how much), and they have enough of the manga now that they can go at least two more story arcs after the current one. That's a lot different from when Season 1 ended and what is now the current anime story arc was still incomplete in the manga.
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Post by Roas on Apr 9, 2017 21:46:45 GMT -5
So I watched Episode 26 and 27 together since I was off traveling during the launch period. Individually they were good, griping... What happened to Mike/Miche (depending on translation) was OMG a hundred times worse in color, animated, and with voice acting. I don't know what they're going to do further down the line with some of the later stuff. I don't think I've felt so squeamish since the first episode when I didn't want to watch Eren's mom die. But pacing... yeah, we're not going to see much this season. Stuff is definitely happening, but it's not going to be a plot reveal a minute sort of show. It's not going to convert anyone who didn't already like the original. I have mixed feelings about this season being 12 episodes, but the animation is gorgeous and definitely as good as Season 1 at its best. I know they shoved a filler episode into Season 1 and did extensive fixes to the home video release to add shading and animation where they fell short on time due to the crazy production schedule, so maybe it's best they take a smaller chunk of episodes at a time and then not wait four years between S2 and S3. Attack on Titan being the money-making juggernaut that it is, I can't imagine they aren't already planning the next batch of episodes. Even if the anime is expensive to produce, there's so much ancillary merchandise and spin-offs they're likely pulling a profit in the end (it's just a question of how much), and they have enough of the manga now that they can go at least two more story arcs after the current one. That's a lot different from when Season 1 ended and what is now the current anime story arc was still incomplete in the manga. It's not like they are lacking in source material with the manga so far ahead. Based upon a 12-13 episode season, the would likely never catch up before the manga ends, considering that the manga seems to be in its final act...though it really needs to do a better job of transition...that last chapter left me going...wtf. I couldn't tell right away if it was a flash back or present day again.
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Post by Rune Lai on Apr 10, 2017 12:05:49 GMT -5
They could catch up if they'd chosen to do a 24-26 episode Season 2 and a 12 episode Season 3 after a three month break. Anime studios have done that kind of schedule before and it would be enough to cover the three arcs needed to catch up to the current one.
But from what I've heard online they opted not to do it for logistics reasons.
Chapters 91-92 involve a time skip, not a flashback. I had to read 91 a couple times before the reference to four years (since the events of the last story arc) actually sunk in. That and the older appearance of a certain somebody make it clearer that a good chunk of time has passed. I think the year 854 is the new present and we're not going back.
I usually lurk on the Attack on Titan wiki after a new chapter comes up because the admins there are pretty sharp and thorough in their manga chapter summaries. They often mark down things I'd missed the first time around (like the time skip, because I was confused as heck).
Okay... spoiler bit (everyone else avert your eyes!)...
How did you like the titan air raid? I like the melding of what we know of titan behavior and a more modern deployment method.
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Post by Roas on Apr 10, 2017 16:22:00 GMT -5
They could catch up if they'd chosen to do a 24-26 episode Season 2 and a 12 episode Season 3 after a three month break. Anime studios have done that kind of schedule before and it would be enough to cover the three arcs needed to catch up to the current one. But from what I've heard online they opted not to do it for logistics reasons. Chapters 91-92 involve a time skip, not a flashback. I had to read 91 a couple times before the reference to four years (since the events of the last story arc) actually sunk in. That and the older appearance of a certain somebody make it clearer that a good chunk of time has passed. I think the year 854 is the new present and we're not going back. I usually lurk on the Attack on Titan wiki after a new chapter comes up because the admins there are pretty sharp and thorough in their manga chapter summaries. They often mark down things I'd missed the first time around (like the time skip, because I was confused as heck). Okay... spoiler bit (everyone else avert your eyes!)...How did you like the titan air raid? I like the melding of what we know of titan behavior and a more modern deployment method. Spoiler warning:Once I realized we were in a new present, I found it interesting use of tactics. I like it that the Armored Titan is no longer this unbeatable juggernaut since Eren kicked his ass and almost killed him.
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Post by Roas on May 1, 2017 0:52:51 GMT -5
Chapter 93 finally succeeded, at least for me, in crystalizing what the hell is actually going on in the story right now. 91-92 were just too damn vague, dancing around what the hell we were really seeing, but now it's all pretty clear...especially the f'd up nature of the Marley Kingdom.
One of my real criticisms of these past few chapters was the poor introduction of new characters, especially with this art style where at least for me it's hard to distinguish certain physical traits that should tell me who someone is.
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Post by Rune Lai on May 9, 2017 21:27:29 GMT -5
Sorry for the late reply. I was waiting for the official translation to come out and I wasn't sure if there were spoilers in your comments. I was hoping the plot would bounce back to Paradis after Chapter 92, but I think there's enough going on with the new cast that I can deal with Marley for a while. Agreed, it was really hard to tell the new people apart in 91 and 92, but I think I got everyone down now with 93. (Having people out of uniform really helps!) By the way, judging from the date you probably read one of the earliest scanalations. I heard that one of the early Ch 93 ones was really poor and implied a lot of things that weren't actually true. I don't think Marley is any worse than what's been going on in Paradis for the past hundred years, but I don't know if that's because of opinion or because something went wrong in translation.
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Post by Roas on May 10, 2017 2:52:20 GMT -5
Sorry for the late reply. I was waiting for the official translation to come out and I wasn't sure if there were spoilers in your comments. I was hoping the plot would bounce back to Paradis after Chapter 92, but I think there's enough going on with the new cast that I can deal with Marley for a while. Agreed, it was really hard to tell the new people apart in 91 and 92, but I think I got everyone down now with 93. (Having people out of uniform really helps!) By the way, judging from the date you probably read one of the earliest scanalations. I heard that one of the early Ch 93 ones was really poor and implied a lot of things that weren't actually true. I don't think Marley is any worse than what's been going on in Paradis for the past hundred years, but I don't know if that's because of opinion or because something went wrong in translation. Eh. I have my place I go. I read it when I see it pop up. Then I wait til next time. I usually have a good sense of when something's funky in translation. One of the worst ones ever was when I tracked down Groove Adventure Rave last decade....o..m..g...that was terrible. I think that was when I picked up the "I got the jist of this" skill that I've applied to many forms of literature over the years.
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Post by Rune Lai on May 10, 2017 11:40:03 GMT -5
Haha. I've read some really poor ones too. And the ones that weren't translated from the Japanese, but from Chinese or French or some other language that the scanalator is more familiar with. I sometimes wonder how much gets lost with those.
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Post by Rune Lai on May 31, 2017 1:34:11 GMT -5
I'm usually not as grouchy about fandom as Roas, but man, some people really don't like Mikasa being referred to as Eren's adopted sister. I saw a crazy, volatile back on forth over whether she was adopted or merely taken in by the Jaegers. I'm not sure why even makes a difference, since the upshot is that she was still raised in the same family and calls Eren "family," but I assume it lowers the squick value for people who ship them.
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